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  #1 Post Number 1571840
Default is porn a 13 billion dollar market? XBIZ needs your input here. Old 08-10-2009, 01:19 PM
HELMY
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I was reading today's Los Angeles Times article on the struggles of the porn biz, and came across the 13 billion dollar figure which apparently has been based on an educated guess all along.

  1. Is it even possible to make an educated guess on the size of the global porn market?
  2. If you did manage to somehow obtain revenue information from key companies around the world, would the numbers be reliable/verifiable enough to support an educated guess?


I ask because XBIZ is interested in getting to the bottom of this fascinating topic.


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  #2 Post Number 1571843
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:25 PM
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maybe global counting dvds etc etc.

Internet alone no way


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  #3 Post Number 1571846
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:50 PM
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See xbiz.net/index.php?c=discussion.view_thread&id=425 for my reply Alec


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  #4 Post Number 1571847
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:51 PM
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The number has always been up in the air. My opinion, online internet porn is around 2-4B/year. Based on speculation and extrapolations of what some of the top billers were taking in.
WG


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  #5 Post Number 1571848
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:52 PM
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You would have to start by defining what is meant by porn biz. The numbers thrown around have always been meaningless because the people throwing them never specify what they are including or excluding....

Strip clubs?
DVD sales?
Online memberships?
Sex Toys?
Escort Services?
Magazine Sales (and which ones... hardcore/softcore etc...)
Live Sex Shows
Books (instructional, 'picture art', etc...)
etc...



Until someone defines what is actually part of the 'porn biz' and what is not part of it, any attempt to quantify the size of the 'porn biz' is meaningless.


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  #6 Post Number 1571849
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Relentless View Post
You would have to start by defining what is meant by porn biz. The numbers thrown around have always been meaningless because the people throwing them never specify what they are including or excluding....

Strip clubs?
DVD sales?
Online memberships?
Sex Toys?
Escort Services?
Magazine Sales (and which ones... hardcore/softcore etc...)
Live Sex Shows
Books (instructional, 'picture art', etc...)
etc...



Until someone defines what is actually part of the 'porn biz' and what is not part of it, any attempt to quantify the size of the 'porn biz' is meaningless.
"Until someone defines what is actually part of the 'porn biz' and what is not part of it, any attempt to quantify the size of the 'porn biz' is meaningless"
I have to agree. I posted something similar on xbiz.net just a few minutes ago.


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  #7 Post Number 1571850
Default Old 08-10-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
The number has always been up in the air. My opinion, online internet porn is around 2-4B/year. Based on speculation and extrapolations of what some of the top billers were taking in.
WG
I heard 4 in 2004 when I started. So you're probably on the dot there. I doubt it has increased or decreased much


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  #8 Post Number 1571856
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:10 PM
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No way to know, anything would just be a guess, not even an educated one....
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  #9 Post Number 1571858
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
The number has always been up in the air. My opinion, online internet porn is around 2-4B/year. Based on speculation and extrapolations of what some of the top billers were taking in.
WG
I must be bigger. The Dutch/Belgian online market for adult is around 500 million alone. My best estimate for tier 1 countries is 20$ per year in online adult across the board per person/per country. Incl. sms, phonebilling, cc, vod, production, models, agencies, etc. But excluding prostitution, striptease, escort, etc. And also excluding 3rd parties like people that press dvds, print magazines, accountants, banks, lawyers, press, desingers, show organisers, software developpers, hosting companies, camera sales, editing, advertising, advise, personal jobs of employees, etc. 4th would be energy, gas, taxes, pensions, car dealers, restaurants, travel agents, hotels, liquor plants, condom manufacturers, dokters, hospitals, medicine manufacturers, and so on...without an end.
All is connected in this world, one way or another.


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  #10 Post Number 1571860
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notime View Post
I must be bigger. The Dutch/Belgian online market for adult is around 500 million alone. My best estimate for tier 1 countries is 20$ per year in online adult across the board per person/per country. Incl. sms, phonebilling, cc, vod, production, models, agencies, etc. But excluding prostitution, striptease, escort, etc. And also excluding 3rd parties like people that press dvds, print magazines, accountants, banks, lawyers, press, desingers, show organisers, software developpers, hosting companies, camera sales, editing, advertising, advise, personal jobs of employees, etc. 4th would be energy, gas, taxes, pensions, car dealers, restaurants, travel agents, hotels, liquor plants, condom manufacturers, dokters, hospitals, medicine manufacturers, and so on...without an end.
All is connected in this world, one way or another.
All that $ and im still eating ramen.


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  #11 Post Number 1571865
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:17 PM
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They've been saying 13bill a year since I was 8 years old.

Considering the adult industry is full of shit i'm not surprised..
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  #12 Post Number 1571867
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:27 PM
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Who cares?
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  #13 Post Number 1571868
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by datatank View Post
Who cares?
everyone that posts in this thread


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  #14 Post Number 1571872
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klaze View Post
They've been saying 13bill a year since I was 8 years old.

Considering the adult industry is full of shit i'm not surprised..
Cum, not shit...


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  #15 Post Number 1571874
Default Old 08-10-2009, 02:48 PM
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I don't think you could ever get a near accurate mark, but I think globally its WAY bigger than 13billion. I would put it more in the 30-40billion range.


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  #16 Post Number 1571879
Default Old 08-10-2009, 03:00 PM
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no way to get an accurate or even educated figure.


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  #17 Post Number 1571880
Default Old 08-10-2009, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HELMY View Post
Is it even possible to make an educated guess on the size of the global porn market?
No. And here's why.

About a year ago I did some consulting for a guy who stumbled into our industry by accident. Early on he bought a killer domain name in a niche that him and his wife excel at. Without using traditional credit card processing or affiliates, he's making a ton of cash. When I say a "ton of cash" I don't mean tens of thousands a month; I'm talking about a million dollars a month in transactions for the past fifteen years. He knows nothing about "our industry", doesn't post on message boards, no affiliates.

Wifey's World is another example. These guys started off making oral videos on VHS, then launched a website, and made bank. Their garage is bigger than my house, and is filled with Italian sports cars that give me wood when I sit in them.

My point is there are tons of people like this who are making bank without ever being a part of our industry, without using the regular billing methods, that no one knows about or know little about.

You can't really track these.


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  #18 Post Number 1571884
Default Old 08-10-2009, 03:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochard View Post
No. And here's why.

About a year ago I did some consulting for a guy who stumbled into our industry by accident. Early on he bought a killer domain name in a niche that him and his wife excel at. Without using traditional credit card processing or affiliates, he's making a ton of cash. When I say a "ton of cash" I don't mean tens of thousands a month; I'm talking about a million dollars a month in transactions for the past fifteen years. He knows nothing about "our industry", doesn't post on message boards, no affiliates.

Wifey's World is another example. These guys started off making oral videos on VHS, then launched a website, and made bank. Their garage is bigger than my house, and is filled with Italian sports cars that give me wood when I sit in them.

My point is there are tons of people like this who are making bank without ever being a part of our industry, without using the regular billing methods, that no one knows about or know little about.

You can't really track these.
That exactly it...


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  #19 Post Number 1571885
Default Old 08-10-2009, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notime View Post
I must be bigger. The Dutch/Belgian online market for adult is around 500 million alone. My best estimate for tier 1 countries is 20$ per year in online adult across the board per person/per country. Incl. sms, phonebilling, cc, vod, production, models, agencies, etc. But excluding prostitution, striptease, escort, etc. And also excluding 3rd parties like people that press dvds, print magazines, accountants, banks, lawyers, press, desingers, show organisers, software developpers, hosting companies, camera sales, editing, advertising, advise, personal jobs of employees, etc. 4th would be energy, gas, taxes, pensions, car dealers, restaurants, travel agents, hotels, liquor plants, condom manufacturers, dokters, hospitals, medicine manufacturers, and so on...without an end.
All is connected in this world, one way or another.
The number I came up with was based on what ibill was billing during their peak and I extrapolated the figure to come up with a reasonable range of the changes that has happened since then. I'm talking only about online adult site, no sex toys, no dating, no cams. Strictly paysites and related sites.
WG


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  #20 Post Number 1571893
Default Old 08-10-2009, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
The number I came up with was based on what ibill was billing during their peak and I extrapolated the figure to come up with a reasonable range of the changes that has happened since then. I'm talking only about online adult site, no sex toys, no dating, no cams. Strictly paysites and related sites.
WG
http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/dialxs...erc egate.com
Do you know all local billing companies well enough?
(dialxs.com does mainly Holland, Belgium & Spain in phonebilling & sms)


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  #21 Post Number 1571941
Default Old 08-10-2009, 05:48 PM
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I think 13 billion is high, an uneducated guess, call it, given the current economy, the fact that DVD sales have been in the shitter for a few years, tubes, etc.
Let's also remember on the internet sales, are you looking at the gross billing or the actual net after all the chargebacks and fraud are cleared out of it?


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  #22 Post Number 1572004
Default Old 08-11-2009, 12:41 AM
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I have no doubt industry peaked close to that range.
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  #23 Post Number 1572031
Default Old 08-11-2009, 05:20 AM
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Also a big problem when guessing is asia. Do japanese used panty sales count ? I doubt that anyone here has real insight into all those different markets. We can only scratch on the surface there and never get the whole picture.

Even "close" markets like france or turkey are very hard to estimate as they so disconnected from the rest of the industry.


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  #24 Post Number 1574306
Default Old 08-16-2009, 03:29 PM
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I looked at the alexa top 100 sites recently and there are quite a few porn sites in there. So, these are the top 100 sites in the world. It is a huge industry but i have no idea how you would even start putting a number on it.
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  #25 Post Number 1623087
Default Old 01-11-2010, 08:03 AM
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stop bouncing old threads.


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  #26 Post Number 1623785
Default Old 01-14-2010, 04:18 AM
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maybe it was before the tubes...


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  #27 Post Number 1625158
Default Old 01-19-2010, 09:46 PM
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If porn is a $13b dollar industry,someone is doing a helluva lot better at it than me.


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  #28 Post Number 1625159
Default Old 01-19-2010, 09:47 PM
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  #29 Post Number 1625179
Default Old 01-20-2010, 12:33 AM
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maybe they counted the pirated dvds here in asia too haha


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  #30 Post Number 1626417
Default Old 01-24-2010, 12:49 AM
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I know it has to be a few billions
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  #31 Post Number 1626419
Default Old 01-24-2010, 01:43 AM
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just too many variables to know for sure, would be impossible to get an exact amount


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